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DoubllD's Juggernaut Build

Torspd

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Damn it man! Great stuff there! Almost ready for a burnout. ;)
 

Torspd

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What's the latest with the engine bay portion?
 

Doublld

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What's the latest with the engine bay portion?

i mounted the turbos on the manifolds started finishing the down pipes had to cut off old vbands and install new ones with a reducer. 3 5/8 dishcarge to 3 inch then weld to downpipe. im also goin water to air to intercoolers since ill be driving it alot
 

Gadget

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What do you mean going with water to air since you will be driving a lot?
 

Gadget

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BS. It is not. Where does this come from?

The only time it is more efficient is in short term use like in drag racing where you can run an ice tank and add some chemicals to get the temp way down. For normal driving it is less efficient because you have to transfer the heat twice. Heat is remove from the hot air and put into the water, then heat is removed from the water and given up to the ambient air. Each time you transfer you loose efficiency.

Go drive a TRD around for a while, don't even have to boost it. Pull the lid from the expansion tank and stick your finger in the water. Bet you it is hotter than the outside air.

As far as pressure drop goes, you just have to size the intercooler core properly for the airflow and heat rejection needed.

Water based system are much easier to package, but air to air most always wins in most setups.
 

Doublld

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BS. It is not. Where does this come from?

The only time it is more efficient is in short term use like in drag racing where you can run an ice tank and add some chemicals to get the temp way down. For normal driving it is less efficient because you have to transfer the heat twice. Heat is remove from the hot air and put into the water, then heat is removed from the water and given up to the ambient air. Each time you transfer you loose efficiency.

Go drive a TRD around for a while, don't even have to boost it. Pull the lid from the expansion tank and stick your finger in the water. Bet you it is hotter than the outside air.

As far as pressure drop goes, you just have to size the intercooler core properly for the airflow and heat rejection needed.

Water based system are much easier to package, but air to air most always wins in most setups.

ill do more research on it then. thanks for the info
 

iniazy

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I understand that water to air needs to exchange heat tiwce, but I read that water is four times better than air in transferring heat, hence more efficient. Only something I heared, don't know if it is 100% correct.

Being the de-facto setup for the highly popular and successful positive displacement superchargers, and the only factory setup supercharger used by various manufacturers such as Jaguar, Mercedes, Ford (Mustangs), etc, and the setup approved by Toyota TRD, I think they must be on to something.
 

Gadget

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It is mostly used with PD superchargers because it is easy to package. It is just that simple.

In most cases the PD superchargers are in the V of the engine and replaces the intake manifold, it is hard to get a pipe to bring that air out and then back in. In that case it is just simpler to use water to air.

G
 

Doublld

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BS. It is not. Where does this come from?

The only time it is more efficient is in short term use like in drag racing where you can run an ice tank and add some chemicals to get the temp way down. For normal driving it is less efficient because you have to transfer the heat twice. Heat is remove from the hot air and put into the water, then heat is removed from the water and given up to the ambient air. Each time you transfer you loose efficiency.

Go drive a TRD around for a while, don't even have to boost it. Pull the lid from the expansion tank and stick your finger in the water. Bet you it is hotter than the outside air.

As far as pressure drop goes, you just have to size the intercooler core properly for the airflow and heat rejection needed.

Water based system are much easier to package, but air to air most always wins in most setups.

i do believe your right with factory setups. the problem with those is that the intercooler is in the supercharger that is bolted to the engine which is getting heat soaked. if i did do one it would be mounted in front of the car away from all heat sources. very different from factory setups. just saying is all
 

justin13703

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Like gadget said every time you transfer heat you lose efficiency. Loss of efficiency in something like this means higher temperatures. If you use the outside air to directly cool your intake air, you will get the most cooling possible. If you use the outside air to cool water, then use that water to cool your intake air, you will lose even more cooling capacity. Basically, air to air loses a bit of efficiency once. Air to water loses it twice. And the water can get heat soaked as well. The reason factory stuff is air to water because it is more compact and takes up less room in the engine bay.

Just figured I'd chime in. You've got an awesome build going on and the only reason you should go with air to water is if you have space issues for an air to air intercooler. The only possible way to get cooler temps out of air to water is to super cool it with ice or something like gadget said.
 

Doublld

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Like gadget said every time you transfer heat you lose efficiency. Loss of efficiency in something like this means higher temperatures. If you use the outside air to directly cool your intake air, you will get the most cooling possible. If you use the outside air to cool water, then use that water to cool your intake air, you will lose even more cooling capacity. Basically, air to air loses a bit of efficiency once. Air to water loses it twice. And the water can get heat soaked as well. The reason factory stuff is air to water because it is more compact and takes up less room in the engine bay.

Just figured I'd chime in. You've got an awesome build going on and the only reason you should go with air to water is if you have space issues for an air to air intercooler. The only possible way to get cooler temps out of air to water is to super cool it with ice or something like gadget said.

ya im very familiar with them. im sticking to air to air i already have the mounting spot for it i just need to buy a bigger one that is rated for higher hp. the one i have now i dont really trust it
 

iniazy

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The only possible way to get cooler temps out of air to water is to super cool it with ice or something like gadget said.

Or use a larger radiator. And if it is a custom-made intake, the larger the core (or the more cores, if laminova cores), the cooler the charge air gets.

Or use refrigerant instead of water :biggrin:
 

Whitebeauty

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I've seen those type... Pretty neat also seen the ones where they tie it in to the A/C system...
 

justin13703

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Or use a larger radiator. And if it is a custom-made intake, the larger the core (or the more cores, if laminova cores), the cooler the charge air gets.

Or use refrigerant instead of water :biggrin:

I meant cooler than an air to air intercooler. You'll never pull a cooler temp than the outside air with air to water unless using something other than the outside air to cool it. You won't either with air to air, but it eliminates one of the heat exchanging cycles.

I have seen the ones that tie into the Ac and they're pretty cool except that you have the parasitic loss of running your ac. And all the added complications of having the Ac system tied into a water to air system lol.
 

kwigs160966

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Swap is coming along really nice. Mine is slow going right now. I need to get a clutch line and clutch release bearing and then I can bolt up the engine and trans.
 

iniazy

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I have seen the ones that tie into the Ac and they're pretty cool except that you have the parasitic loss of running your ac. And all the added complications of having the Ac system tied into a water to air system lol.

I've never seen one, just a thought I had, what if! Wouldn't that be awesome? Freezing air temprature blowing into the motor :blurock:
 
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