Port n Polish & Nitrous

Discussion in 'F/I Mods & Tuning' started by grifter95, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    Got an -4AN tee (male-male-female) to pull fuel from the 7th injector pickup for the nitrous. Nitrous kit and tee should arrive before the weekend. Going to use my existing map-ecu3 + switch+ wot switch to activate and cut off before my shift point. This will be to start off with 35-50 shot. Then will add controller as funds are available.
     
  2. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    Well nitrous kit showed up this week. Started my install today. Took S/C off and installed IDK24 spark plugs. While S/C was off I drilled and tapped inlet between the 2 90 degree bends and installed shark nozzle. Reinstalled blower. Mounted Nitrous tank, plumbed wiring and hose. Only hold up was the supplied fuel hose from vehicle to solenoid was 3 inches to short to attach from 7th injector to solenoid . So I ordered a longer SS braided hose and an additional relay to convert the Map-Ecu3 nitrous signal from negative to positive to activate nitrous at WOT, +boost, and between 3k and 5.2K rpms. New order should be here tuesday and hopefully will get installed Wednesday or the weekend. I can't wait!
     
  3. Jap

    Jap New Member

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    *LIKE*.....
     
  4. NUPEPRIME

    NUPEPRIME Active Member

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    How about a couple of pics...?
     
  5. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    You should use the actual throttle blade position sensor for WOT, not the pedal position sensor ECU input.

    This will report what the throttle blade is actually physically doing, not what its suppose to be doing (if you catch my drift).
     
    #45 5H4D0WD347H, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  6. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    I made kind of a secondary rail hub using a hard anodized aluminum vac port brick and used this for two fuel pressure senders (one acting as a fuel pressure cut off switch and the other for FPS gauge), and the N2O supply line.

    I came out of the factory rail, into my multiport hub, and then out the other side and continued on into the 7th.

    Had I been running any kind of substantial shot id install a dedicated pump/line/regulator just for the nitrous system or another fuel cell/system all together.

    Id start spraying around 3,800 - 4,000 with the TRD blower if I were you.

    TRD TQ peaks out around just before this area, avoid it.
     
    #46 5H4D0WD347H, Jun 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2012
  7. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    5H4D0WD347H curious why you would not spray until 4k RPMs? Seems you would only have 1k-1.2k of use on each gear... why not spray second gear from like 3k to shift point? Not disagreeing... simply wanting to understand point.


    Also used a -4AN. Tee from the 7th injector inlet to supply fuel... seems like it will work well. And fairly cheap only $10 worth of parts (tee and 90* elbow)

    Pics will come when I get through this week... still got to finish install and clean up my wiring.
     
    #47 grifter95, Jun 4, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2012
  8. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    You have about 2,000 RPM of spray time in a very usable area 3,800 - 5800ish (providing you have raised the limiter).

    The TRD blower makes a ton of TQ down low, there is no need to spray lower then 3,800 RPMs. Just when the TRD power starts to fade off is when you want the nitrous system to come online and carry it the rest of the way through.


    Also the higher up in the rev range the less stressful it is on the motor; if I had forged internals or at least a better head gasket/stud set id spray lower (but even then traction would become a huge issue).

    Remember nitrous really doesn't care what the motor wants, and could care less what RPM its turning at.

    These stock pistons are fragile.

    Check out this graph and you will see what I mean:

    Someone knocked our fan off the dyno lift and broke it so I had no fan for these pulls, the blue run is a heat soaked (notice how its way lower starting out) nitrous run on a 35 shot!

    This is before it was really tuned in (did a bunch of just boost tuning first).

    93 pump gas and still had the stock Y with cats installed! lol.

    [​IMG]
     
    #48 5H4D0WD347H, Jun 6, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  9. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    Bump for pics!
     
  10. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    I will take some pics tomorrow. Git everything hooked up this morning but was not getting the relay to work to activate. Did not have time before work to fix. So hopefully in the morning I can get it working. I am really excited.
     
  11. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    Well I finally finished the Nitrous Express Proton installation. It was both really simple and extremely challenging. The basic installation is a breeze.... just time consuming. However, the quirks of our trucks and the extra safety features I needed caused for some headaches. But not it is done.

    Before installation I had the TRD blower, 2.8" URD pulley, NST overdrive, 7th Injector, DTLT headers, URD TCAI (modified), and the Map-Ecu3 to control everything. So before I started the nitrous install I wanted tto change my plugs over to Denso IKH24 Iridium Spark Plugs (2" cooler than TRD plugs) which of course meant pulling the supercharger.

    While the S/C was off I drilled and tapped a 1/4 NPT hole in the S/C between the two 90* bends as seen below. I then installed the Nitrous Express Shark nozzle.

    I then mounted the solenoid on top of the fuse panel. I had ordered some -4 An fittings, tee's, and 90* elbows from summit racing. I used these to route fuel from the 7th injector pick-up to the solenoid fuel input. The N2O and fuel outputs from solenoid were hoooked up to the shark nozzle. I then installed the 10lb tank brackets behind my rear seats (drivers side) and drilled a 3/4" hole in flooring to run the nitrous line from the bottle to engine bay. This line was secured underneath the truck and up into the engine bay and finally connecting to the N2O input on the solenoid. Payed special attention in keeping line from getting kinked or routed close to anything that gets hot. Physical install complete.

    Wiring was a headache due to my mistakes along the way... but finally fixed it and it works. Switch was installed in dash to provide a (+) output. Run to passenger side and out into engine bay. Map-Ecu3 switched output 2 (-) was also run into engine bay. These were feed into a relay to reverse the polarity of the Map-Ecu3's output to (+). This (+) output was run to drivers side fuse box and attached to nitrous express relay as the switched input. The Map-Ecu3 was programmed to arm the switched output 2 under the following conditions...

    Throttle >90%
    RPM 3500-5300
    Pressure 1-12psi
    Speed voltage (will be set later to maximum speed that truck shifts into second under WOT from launch)

    After everything was properly hooked up and output from Map-Ecu3 was verified with test light first before hooking into nitrous relay, I took it out to test it.

    Started with 30 shot. Very noticeable change once nitrous was activated. 2nd gear went from shift to redline FAST! Drove around for 15 minutes or so activating it from different speeds and running it up to 110mph. No problems... A/F stayed in the high 10's and low 11's as I have it tuned to do. Then let truck cool down a bit and swapped jets to a 50 shot and repeated test. WOW. Don't know if it was only the change of jets or that coupled with the sun heating up bottle to better pressures but it was much more impressive. Tested this setting several runs and everything perfect again.

    So it works... got to tiddy up the wiring a little

    Here are the pics... Excuse the dirty truck... rain and dirt driveway

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  12. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    Nice pictures.

    Glad to read your enjoying it; I have a few observations for you (take them or leave them):

    1. Your lack of bottle heater will lead to loss of power (not true shots) & inconsistent jetting. The more runs you do back to back the more power you will lose (bottle pressure drops during runs with a bottle heater, and severely with out one). use one in conjuction with a pressure sensor shut off. Another option is the NANO system approach.

    2. How are you monitoring nitrous pressure from the driver seat? How are you turning the bottle on and off from the driver seat? Both are very important for many reasons.

    3. Keep in mind that if you leave a bottle in a hot truck your jetting will be extremely lean (I am sure you know this but its worth saying). Also I see no blow down/draft tube installed on your bottle - if the burst disc were to rupture it would dump all its contents into the cab (not cool if your driving); its also required to be track legal (you can do one affordably by just using some decent hose and routing it outside the truck).

    4. It appears (maybe not the case) that your nitrous/fuel lines are extremely close to the headers, this can result in a catastrophic extremely dangerous hose failure where a nitrous/gas fire is possible if the hose weakens and fails due to heat exposure. At the very least id apply heat shielding around the hoses in that area. From a performance stand point (safety is the bigger one) the manifold heat will promote the nitrous to be in a gaseous state (which is not what you want); defenitely move the hoses as far away as possible and apply heat shield to them.

    Stainless braided hoses look big and bad on the outside - but they are real thin plastic tubing on the inside equally susceptible to kink and heat exposure; the stainless braid masks this damage.

    5. You need a purge solenoid (not just for power reasons) but to empty the main nitrous line out when you are not using it. You do not want a pressurized supply line 24/7 incase a solenoid weeps nitrous into the intake manifold while the trucks not running....

    6. Your system relays should be installed inside the cab to protect them from the elements and prevent failures; they are often at high risk for failure due to car wash soap, dust/grime, heating/cooling, and moisture corroding the crap out of them.

    7. Id consider seperate solenoids (not solenoids in a box) so that they are easy to periodically inspect. Also two nitrous solenoids plumbed together in series is a good idea; if one sticks open the other will close.

    8. Clean up the wiring as you said (no butt connectors), solder and heat shrink.

    9. How did you remove the metal from inside the blower when you drilled it? Did you removed the drive assembly to gain access to it?

    10. Check your spark plugs for each cylinder when hopping between jetting.

    Finally just some comments:

    A. You should wire the system up so you can just activate the fuel solenoid independently from the nitrous solenoid via a button or switch in the cab. Before you do a nitrous run its a good idea (with no nitrous on) to activate the fuel solenoid quickly and make sure the engine stumbles a tiny bit (or AFR changes drastically) to insure the system is functioning properly. This will also allow you to activate the fuel solenoid under load to flow test the fuel system at your current jetting. A simple way to do all this is to just add in a deutsch connector (or other similar high quality plug) and unplug the nitrous solenoid each time u want to test the fuel system (which in the long run is more effort since you will need to constantly disconnect and reconnect this plug).

    B. When you are done using the system, purge the nitrous line free of gas.

    C. HAVE FUN!!!! Big time power increase!


    If not beneficial advice to you it should be to others reading this thread. The use of nitrous is extremely safe as long as certain guidelines and install practices are followed.


    That TRD blower loves that juice doesn't she? :-D OM NOM NOM
     
    #52 5H4D0WD347H, Jun 8, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012
  13. Super Werty

    Super Werty Active Member

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    Sooo did you get a port and polish or not
     
  14. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    I did not... guess I should change title of this thread as it has morphed into a nitrous thread. :rockon:
     
  15. Jap

    Jap New Member

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    Nice write up, some real good info in here.
    If only nitrous were legal in the road here, I'd have my system in.

    Keep us updated with progress
     
  16. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    Nice pictures.

    Glad to read your enjoying it; I have a few observations for you (take them or leave them):

    1. Your lack of bottle heater will lead to loss of power (not true shots) & inconsistent jetting. The more runs you do back to back the more power you will lose (bottle pressure drops during runs with a bottle heater, and severely with out one). use one in conjuction with a pressure sensor shut off. Another option is the NANO system approach.

    I have a bottle heater with switch and pressure sensor waiting to be ordered when I get my next paycheck. Definitely can tell the difference from a cool bottle to a bottle warmed up in the sun.

    2. How are you monitoring nitrous pressure from the driver seat? How are you turning the bottle on and off from the driver seat? Both are very important for many reasons.

    I have the pressure gauge on the bottle. I currently have to open and close the bottle physically at the bottle as well. Down the road if I get a remote bottle opener/closer I am sure I will get a remote pressure gauge as well.

    3. Keep in mind that if you leave a bottle in a hot truck your jetting will be extremely lean (I am sure you know this but its worth saying). Also I see no blow down/draft tube installed on your bottle - if the burst disc were to rupture it would dump all its contents into the cab (not cool if your driving); its also required to be track legal (you can do one affordably by just using some decent hose and routing it outside the truck).

    I currently am not leaving the nitrous in the truck when not in use. I may in the future… but this Georgia hot summers worries me. I do need a blow down tube. Any instructions on how to make one? Or is it easier to buy a pre-made one?

    4. It appears (maybe not the case) that your nitrous/fuel lines are extremely close to the headers, this can result in a catastrophic extremely dangerous hose failure where a nitrous/gas fire is possible if the hose weakens and fails due to heat exposure. At the very least id apply heat shielding around the hoses in that area. From a performance stand point (safety is the bigger one) the manifold heat will promote the nitrous to be in a gaseous state (which is not what you want); defenitely move the hoses as far away as possible and apply heat shield to them. Stainless braided hoses look big and bad on the outside - but they are real thin plastic tubing on the inside equally susceptible to kink and heat exposure; the stainless braid masks this damage.

    My nitrous line as it comes into the engine bay is still 6+ inches from the headers. But I also have some hear shielding to be ordered with the bottle heater. The nitrous/fuel lines from the solenoid to nozzle are both 10+ inches from headers so they should be fine.

    5. You need a purge solenoid (not just for power reasons) but to empty the main nitrous line out when you are not using it. You do not want a pressurized supply line 24/7 incase a solenoid weeps nitrous into the intake manifold while the trucks not running....

    I also am planning on a purge solenoid down the road. In the meantime I am physically unhooking the nitrous line from tank after use… therefore releasing pressure.

    6. Your system relays should be installed inside the cab to protect them from the elements and prevent failures; they are often at high risk for failure due to car wash soap, dust/grime, heating/cooling, and moisture corroding the crap out of them.

    Inside the cab would be better. However, I have three others relays that are in the engine bay for almost 100K miles with no problems.

    7. Id consider seperate solenoids (not solenoids in a box) so that they are easy to periodically inspect. Also two nitrous solenoids plumbed together in series is a good idea; if one sticks open the other will close.

    Good idea… may or may not do this down the road.

    8. Clean up the wiring as you said (no butt connectors), solder and heat shrink.

    As said in previous post will be doing this.

    9. How did you remove the metal from inside the blower when you drilled it? Did you removed the drive assembly to gain access to it?

    When I took the S/C off to change the spark plugs I also took the drive shaft off to change the oil. Stuffed a towel in the intake past where I was drilling and tapping to catch the shavings. Then everything was cleaned up after completion.

    10. Check your spark plugs for each cylinder when hopping between jetting.

    Should do. However, I was not going to take off the S/C each time. Do passenger side plugs and watching wideband will have to do.

    Finally just some comments:

    A. You should wire the system up so you can just activate the fuel solenoid independently from the nitrous solenoid via a button or switch in the cab. Before you do a nitrous run its a good idea (with no nitrous on) to activate the fuel solenoid quickly and make sure the engine stumbles a tiny bit (or AFR changes drastically) to insure the system is functioning properly. This will also allow you to activate the fuel solenoid under load to flow test the fuel system at your current jetting. A simple way to do all this is to just add in a deutsch connector (or other similar high quality plug) and unplug the nitrous solenoid each time u want to test the fuel system (which in the long run is more effort since you will need to constantly disconnect and reconnect this plug).

    B. When you are done using the system, purge the nitrous line free of gas.

    C. HAVE FUN!!!! Big time power increase!

    Yes it is. It’s almost the kind of surge I get when she hits boost again at 3,500 rpms when the nitrous hits. Awesome!

    However, to be conservative I am thinking about on leaving the 30 hp shot jets in when I am just cruising and save the 50 hp jets for when I am actually at the track. Also want to do some type of progressive system to ease in the power and maybe go up to a 75 hp shot down the road if I get the time and money to replace the piston and rods. We’ll see.

    If not beneficial advice to you it should be to others reading this thread. The use of nitrous is extremely safe as long as certain guidelines and install practices are followed.



    That TRD blower loves that juice doesn't she? :-D OM NOM NOM

    Yep. Thanks for all the advice!
    __________________
     
  17. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    That is the best thing about nitrous on top of boost.

    You get two acceleration rushes; its like coming' twice. :laugh:
     
  18. grifter95

    grifter95 New Member

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    Had a huge scare since installing the nitrous and testing it. The day during and after testing everything sounded fine... just the normal Toyota engine noise. But that night when I got home I was hearing the loud tapping noise from the bottom front end of the engine bay. This worried me sick all night. Next morning I cranked it up to the same sound. So I gently drove it to the Ford dealership where my father is service director. His head tech with 35+ years of experience was there. Described to him where the sound (louder by this point) was and I could see him cringe. So I left it with him to check out while I went to work. I was fully expecting him to call and tell me I had engine damage.... I just knew it. All of the internet horror stories about nitrous had me convinced that even though I did everything correctly and conservatively that nitrous had killed my engine in just 4 small sprays! But what baffled me was why the sound waited 16+ hours from the last time I sprayed nitrous or even went into boost to start presenting itself. Well 30 minutes later he called me laughing. Good sign? He informed me that my serpentine belt was beginning to split and it was hitting something on the bottom as it rounded the pulleys. This was a new Gatorback belt with only 6K miles on it! So I called the local Toyota dealership and had them order a new TRD belt. It arrived today and I just got through installing it. The sound went away... YEAH!!! The Gatorback belt had a slit in it almost 6 inches long where it had begun to separate. Why would this new "better" belt fail in less than a month? Anyways I can sleep again. Now yall can laugh at my worrying.
     
  19. Jap

    Jap New Member

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    Nah man, I would have been worried the same, but I would not have gone to bed lol
    Would have had the front end in the air looking for that noise
    Glad you found it, my gatorback has been going for ages and still looks pretty good, I always carry the secondhand toyota one as a spare though.
     
  20. 5H4D0WD347H

    5H4D0WD347H New Member

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    ROFL! WHAT!? Oh man that sucks... perfect timing huh?

    OH EM GEE! Teh' NITROUS BLEW MY ENGINES! I SHOULD OF LISTENED TO THE KIDZ ON THE INTERNETZ!

    It would have to be a major tuning/operation failure if your motor went on such a very small shot that quick. :laugh:

    Bet that got you good though haha; false alarm - when done right nitrous isnt the evil motor killing monster n00bs think that it is.

    Thanks for sharing, I got a good laugh.
     

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