Stock brake pads and rotor swap

[X_Less]

Many race cars don't have ABS, so perhaps that's why it wasn't covered in the article. In F1 racing, for example, ABS brakes were banned in the 90's (Formula1.com). I usually like to point out that the brakes on F1 cars, as shown in the link, aren't cross-drilled, dimpled, or slotted. :wink:

ABS didn't become standard until the late 90s on street cars...

For F1, Understandably so. But there is no way that a F1 car is similar to a typical car. An F1 car is light, uses aerodynamics, Open fenders, slicks and it's speed to function... Those things go super fast and the brakes don't work until they are hot. So adding any holes, dimples or slots will potentially crack the rotors.

However, On typical road cars without 6 piston calipers and ample amount of weight... It will be slightly beneficial for extra ventilated rotors that won't be under the stress of hard braking before a sharp corner like a legitimate race car would.

 

[dramad1]

Slotted and drilled or not slotted and drilled

Slotted or not slotted.

Hmmm.... That is the question.

My rotors are good for now so I may just grab the yellow stuff pads and try them out. When my rotors need replacing I may pick up the ebc slotted ones.

Anyone know the braided lines I would need to replace the stock ones?

 

[MplsX]

Ah, What is the best source of information? With auto technical stuff I would rank a formal tech school first, textbooks second. Way down the list are internet forums. Forums are like asking for advice in a bar. Some people may be experts and know their shit, but many are just drunk.

The basics facts remain basic but advancements in technology are nice additions to have. Unless you know the basics in any field you will be lost. Problems that happened in 1991 still occur today. Spark plugs still get fouled, brake discs still get warped and thin. Just because we now have electronic fuel injection, coil on plug ignition systems and ABS doesn't mean that you can throw out the basic fundamentals of engineering.

Much of the brake article dealt with applications. A brake system for the street is far different that one used for racing. Do you want brakes that work great, but only when the components are hot and not so great at street temps? Do you want an ultimate brake system but at the expense of additional unsprung weight? Everything is a compromise, what are your priorities?

The price of education can vary. Will you buy and install expensive inappropriate parts and technology and learn that way, or do you want to do some proper research and save money and effort? Personally I get a kick out of seeing people spending lots of money and effort on something only to make it worse. It's a personal choice but if you make the wrong choices it can be devastating. Good luck.

 

[X_Less]

Very well :top:

 

[SooRunner]

Slotted and drilled or not slotted and drilled

Slotted or not slotted.

Hmmm.... That is the question.

My rotors are good for now so I may just grab the yellow stuff pads and try them out. When my rotors need replacing I may pick up the ebc slotted ones.

Anyone know the braided lines I would need to replace the stock ones?

I would go slotted rotors, I've heard drilled rotors tend to crack if they are not treated. My TRD BBK came with Goodridge G-Stop brake lines. Don't forget the brake fluid! I'm using ATE blue brake fluid. (color is just so you know you fully bleed the brake system).

 

[autobodyX]

Many race cars don't have ABS, so perhaps that's why it wasn't covered in the article. In F1 racing, for example, ABS brakes were banned in the 90's (Formula1.com). I usually like to point out that the brakes on F1 cars, as shown in the link, aren't cross-drilled, dimpled, or slotted. :wink:

Carbon ceramic brakes are in a league of their own and are usless untill they are hot. Not a good comparison to conventional brakes.
They are for race cars and cars like the ZR1 vette.

 

[butters607]

Yea yellowstuff is a little much I'm gonna go with the red ones next time around the yellows.have a ton of dust and squeak a lot .....I got the ebc fluid as well

 

[Edgeman]

Ah, Gotcha... But needs a page that explains how ABS works.

I don't think that ABS helps a car stop much (if any) shorter than a car without ABS. It just takes the knowledge & skill of threshold braking out of the equation. Instead of having to actually modulate your brake pedal to prevent lockup while applying maximum braking force, it actually applies then releases (and again, and again...) the brakes in rapid succession to keep a driver from locking up their tires in a panic stop.

It's worthwhile for (especially) young drivers to activate their ABS system before getting into a panic situation. That's taught in the Street Survival Course for the specific reason you want drivers to know what it feels like when ABS engages. Some have felt the vibration in the pedal, and released the brakes until the ABS system disengaged (sometimes with bad consequences).

Generally speaking, ABS allows you to steer the vehicle when otherwise you wouldn't if your car had locked up it's tires.

Another note, since Dot 3 & 4 brake fluids are hygroscopic, it absorbs water over time. This presents two problems. First of all, when the brakes heat up, you may turn the water into a gas, giving you a soft pedal. This is because you can't compress a fluid, but you can compress a gas. Your braking power was just decreased. The second problem is corrosion within your braking system. If you've ever seen how brake fluid turns dark brown after many years in a vehicle, it's because your braking system is deteriorating from the inside. How do you prevent this? By flushing your brake system every 2-3 years. Although our trucks can use Dot 3 or Dot 4, never use Dot 5! Our braking system wasn't designed for it.

Flushing your brake fluid should be a skill every "backyard mechanic" has acquired. There are several different ways to flush your system, so I'll defer to others in which is best. I've used the Motive system for my BMWs, but I'm not thrilled with it's "universal adapter" for use on our trucks.

 

[CBRBob]

You can use DOT 5.1.

 

[MplsX]

5.1 silicone brake fluid is great stuff, but not for ABS systems.

 

[Grumpy]

dramad1 - I now have Power Slot dimple & slot rotors. The stock rotors out perform this PS rotors. They look fancy but offer no noticeable gain in performance. Only reason I have them is my oem rotors wear worn and need replacing....and another member who upgraded too bbk make me an offer in couldn't refused. If I had to do it over again, I would've gone with a good oem replacement instead. Non slot, dimple, or drill rotors.

I'm on my 2nd set of TRD pads and I love it. Got about 70k miles out of the first set. They have higher operating temperature ceiling and higher cofficient of friction then stock oem pads. Rotor will over heat well before the pad start to fade. Can't speak for ebc as I've never use them.

Get the SS braided lines. Increasing stopping power is a small benefit for the upgrade. More direct pedal feel is why i upgraded. It will give you better feedback, especially when threshold braking. Also make for easier modulation. Once you've switch, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner. This also present a great opportunity to flush your brake system with better brake fliud with higher temperature capacity.

Anyone with driving with stock brake system is asking for trouble...especially when you have power upgrade(s). Being able to go faster without being able to stop faster just doesn't make sense. Don't be cheap and upgrade today. Pads, ss lines, fluid, and roto swill run you around $500-600, cost effective upgrade imho. If you need more then upgrade to bbk....but something tells me you'll be happy with the upgrade for a while.

 

[dramad1]

Right on grumpy. I appreciate your info.

So the trd pads? Are there different pads to choose from like with the ebc pads?, And do you have any recommendations for a better brake fluid ( one brand over another)? I have heard that the stock fluid can accumulate water in it over time causing that mushy feeling durning hard braking.
Edit.
I did some searching around for the trd pads and I'm not seeing any for the tacoma model. Will the ones for the 4runner work with our trucks?

 

[Grumpy]

One set for 5 lugs (PTR09-35086), no guessing color of the rainbow. Simple & effective . . . at under $100, well within anyone's budget. Expect some dust, it come with the territory.

For fluid, I went with Motul RBF600 for my last three flushes. Did not disappoint. Relative inexpensive and easy to find. If more frequent track use, RBF 660 is availble. Gonna need 2 bottles. It is recommend that brake system flush is done annually to get rid of any accumulated moisture & contamination from corrosion to maintain maximum braking performance. Other people have use ATE Super Blue with good result as well.

For brake lines, Stop Tech & Goodridge make front & rear kit for our truck. Line will expand at the weakest point so replace both front & rear. 6 lugs ( PR & 4x4) use different fittings than 5 lugs (XR & base), make sure you get the correct front kit. Rear kits are the same.

 

[dramad1]

One set for 5 lugs (PTR09-35086), no guessing color of the rainbow. Simple & effective . . . at under $100, well within anyone's budget. Expect some dust, it come with the territory.

For fluid, I went with Motul RBF600 for my last three flushes. Did not disappoint. Relative inexpensive and easy to find. If more frequent track use, RBF 660 is availble. Gonna need 2 bottles. It is recommend that brake system flush is done annually to get rid of any accumulated moisture & contamination from corrosion to maintain maximum braking performance. Other people have use ATE Super Blue with good result as well.

For brake lines, Stop Tech & Goodridge make front & rear kit for our truck. Line will expand at the weakest point so replace both front & rear. 6 lugs ( PR & 4x4) use different fittings than 5 lugs (XR & base), make sure you get the correct front kit. Rear kits are the same.

Thanks again for the info. Ill be checking it out.

 

[dramad1]

So I ordered those trd pads about mid week last week from trd parts4u cause they were the only place I found that had them.
So today I get an email from PayPal stating I'm getting a refund of my money and I also got a phone call stating that those pads part # (P2R09-35086), have been dicontinued and are no longer avail for purchase. Hmmmm... Anyone know where I can get a set of these? I have looked for hours on many different sites and come up empty. If I can't find them, I may just go with the yellow stuff pads instead.

 

[05xrunnerx]

You couldn't order them from the stealership

 

[dramad1]

Didn't think of this^^^^. I'd rather not because of the mark up but if they have them avail then I just may.

 

[05xrunnerx]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-2013-T...Parts_Accessories&hash=item53f8aab8e7&vxp=mtr

im not sure how much they normally are but here is a set

 

[dramad1]

^^^ I'm amazed how quickly you found those, but the seller is from trd parts 4 u and they just called me stating the part has been discontinued.

Just called the dealership. They want 153.09 out the door. They are 90$ originally. Ha ha.

Edit. Oops it's accessories 4 u not parts. I may just go with the seller. Hmmm. Thanks. For the help.

 

[Grumpy]

Just talked to my friend at the local Toyota parts department and he have one set left in stock ready to ship. They are discontinuing the item so this is your last chance to get a pair. Order it through toyotaterritory.com

If you have any question, call and ask for Omar.
In case you don't want them anymore, let me know. I'll scoop them and save it for future use.