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XK Panels finally loaded up.

kcidmil

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Well I finally got the panels finished and loaded up. God is it great to finally have bass again. I would say I'd take some pics of everything but I'll be honest and say that I won't get to it anytime soon.

2 Memphis Reference 10"s SVC
JL 600/1 amp
Focal 6.5"
Roadkill Sound deadening on any piece of metal behind the panel.
Wrapped in Med Gray Vinyl.

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*IrunnIt*

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Those look awesome, I gotta do mine they've been sitting in the basement for 3 years now.
 

hottacoX

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Looking good bro, motivation for me to get mine done :top:

Always wondered though what kinda space is between the sub and the rear seat? Would it hit on a deep spike?

How would you say the sound is? Does it rattle the shit outta the door?
 

kcidmil

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I am not sure with other subs, the Memphis Reference just clears even during the deepest of excursions. However there is no room to put a nice grill. Because of the box and acoustics you'll distort before you push them far enough to touch.

As far as rattle the only thing I get is a rattle out of the seat belt cover on the panel. But it's barely noticeable and is drowned out by the stereo. Of course they put tons of Road Kill matting, way more than I was expecting.

If you do your own install make sure to switch the phase on one of the subs, keeps them from canceling each other out.
 

justin13703

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Looks awesome, Could you go into more detail about why you switched the phase? I know all about phase switching to match sound waves an stuff, but I don't see how it would be used in this situation. If they're switched, when one side pushes out, the other pushes in, effectively canceling the sound wave. Normal phase though, thy both push out at the same time, creating pressure you hear as bass. The polarity in door speakers isn't reversed, I don't see why it would need to be here. I've just been running it through my head and it seems that wiring them in opposite phase will have a negative effect.
 

TommyXrunner

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looks awesome but i'd be really worried about the sound for those subs not producing in that space. even with sound deadening covering the entire panel. i sure would love to hear that!
 

kcidmil

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Looks awesome, Could you go into more detail about why you switched the phase? I know all about phase switching to match sound waves an stuff, but I don't see how it would be used in this situation. If they're switched, when one side pushes out, the other pushes in, effectively canceling the sound wave. Normal phase though, thy both push out at the same time, creating pressure you hear as bass. The polarity in door speakers isn't reversed, I don't see why it would need to be here. I've just been running it through my head and it seems that wiring them in opposite phase will have a negative effect.

Problem being with the subs facing each other they each create their wave and send it out. When at a lower volume there's no issue as each wave and tone only carry so far. However when you amplify the wave they clash with each other just cancel each other out. So you actually end up loosing more of your bass the higher you go in this setup.

However when using one sub out of phase from the other each releases their wave at different intervals keeping it so they're not canceling out each other. So while in theory both subs are firing in the same linear direction (one in and one out) only one is sending out a wave at the given time because with the other sub then pushes it's wave on the rebound. The other sub is first pushing its wave into the box. Meaning their respective waves will not meet up perfectly to cancel out. But this only works when you have 2 subs opposed in separate boxes. If facing the same direction it just cancels each other out.

looks awesome but i'd be really worried about the sound for those subs not producing in that space. even with sound deadening covering the entire panel. i sure would love to hear that!

The Memphis Reference is their latest shallow mount meant for enclosures around .5 cu ft sealed. Trust me these things hit a lot lower than I ever would have expected for 10"s... even the guys who installed it all were impressed with how low they hit.

And if you want; take a drive out to Utah sometime and you can hear them. Just not till around October, going to be quite busy living it up on a sandy beach in the middle east for awhile.

It came out sharp.

Nice job.

Kudos go to Justin at Audio Xtreme in Ogden Utah. He helped out a lot from doing the install to fiberglassing the bolt to the XK panel for me when the old ones popped off. Shameless plug for the store I know, but the guy did really help out a lot.
 
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TommyXrunner

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nice! i just wasn't sure on the acoustics of the door panels and that would be quite the drive down there! not sure how long that would take...
 

kcidmil

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nice! i just wasn't sure on the acoustics of the door panels and that would be quite the drive down there! not sure how long that would take...

Oyama isn't a huge distance away google says 15 hours, and the way I drive it'll be like 10... LOL. Not like driving up to Ontario to steal Canadian Girl's tailgate off her XR.
 
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TommyXrunner

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Oyama isn't a huge distance away google says 15 hours, and the way I drive it'll be like 10... LOL. Not like driving up to Ontario to steal Canadian Girl's tailgate off her XR.

ya i guess thats not all that bad. i've only been everywhere in british columbia and to seattle a few times so a road trip should be on my to do list one of these days soon......if gas prices don't get any worse :laugh:
 

justin13703

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Ok, I just spent the whole time driving home thinking about this, and I still have yet to figure out how that is a better way to wire them up lol. Not trying to argue, and if you don't want kind of a debate in here, just tell me and I'll shut up lol. But I feel like we can get some good info out there by maybe going back and forth with ideas.

So anyway, here's my theory. And I'm mecp certified and this is the way that the mecp standard says is correct. Basically take out of the equation the two boxes the subs are installed in. Since they aren't connected together at any point what happens in one box doesn't affect what happens in the other. Look at the whole interior of the truck as the enclosure, since this is where the two subs are affecting each other.

Basically, bass is all about pressure. Now, if the subs are wired in phase, they both are doing the same thing at the same time. When they both hit, they push in on the enclosure (interior) at the same time, obviously creating pressure, not absorbing each others pressure, but essentially pushing on each other. When they are playing out of phase, when one come is moving out, the other is moving in, essentially canceling out any pressure wave created. For example, if the sub on the left moves out and displaces 1 cubic foot of air (just for the example), at the exact same time, sub on the right moves in and creates one cubic foot of airspace. Pretty much acting like a sponge and absorbing the pressure waves from the opposite subwoofer.

The only time I can see it making sense to wire subs out of phase in your situation, is if you had one subwoofer facing cone side out, and one facing magnet side out. This theory is the same whether it be subs, door speakers, or tweeters, opposing frequencies being created at the same time in the same airspace absorb each other. This is why you never hear of door speakers being wired out of phase, it's essentially the same situation. Mecp makes it clear that you NEVER want to do this lol.

Just trying to get some constructive conversation out there, not trying to argue.
 
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kcidmil

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For example, if the sub on the left moves out and displaces 1 cubic foot of air (just for the example), at the exact same time, sub on the right moves in and creates one cubic foot of airspace. Pretty much acting like a sponge and absorbing the pressure waves from the opposite subwoofer.

Which is true when using 2 subs in an enclosure where the interior volume would make a difference. Which is why you don't wire out of phase when you have subs facing in the same direction. The opposite movement from one sub firing in cancels out the other woofer. But when dealing with an interior of the vehicle where the volume is much larger, moving 1 cu.ft doesn't mean anything. The wave disperses through the cabin and the opposite subwoofer doesn't create enough of a sponge effect to dampen it. However when firing in phase the sounds waves meet in unison, and will in cancel out or create some weird effects in the cabin. It's a very weird sound and feeling when this happens. Remember facing inside the cabin of a vehicle is not the same as facing inside a bandpass. The interior volume makes a big difference.


This is one of the simplest explanations I've found, pulled from here.
http://www.caraudiohelp.com/newsletter/losing_bass.htm


Cancellation

Cancellation occurs when a sound wave meets another sound wave with opposite phase (+ and -). This will cause the two waves to cancel each other out and the result is less or no sound. The biggest culprit is incorrect wiring of the subwoofers. This can be at the subwoofer, at the enclosure terminal cup or at the amplifier. If one woofer is firing forward while the other is firing backward the subwoofers will cancel each other out. This can also happen when two subwoofer that are firing in phase are point directly at one another. When their wave output meet you will get large peaks and valleys in the response depending on the distance apart and the frequency of the wave. Always double check your subwoofer wiring if you suspect phasing problems.

If you ever happen to see me at an X-fest meet or something I'll rewire to be in phase and you can hear it for yourself.
 

justin13703

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Hmmm that's interesting, I've never thought of it that way. I was gonna ask if you had ever wired them in phase and heard a difference, but I guess you have lol. Learn something new every day I guess.

Anyway, I like this setup a lot. I like my subbin box but hate that you have to take it out to get under the rear seats.
 

kcidmil

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I bought the xk panels because I always liked the idea of having both seats available. And at the time we only had 2 kids so I needed the rear seats. It would figure though that as soon as I buy the panels we find out that the wife is having our 3rd. Can't fit 4 plus a car seat in the X-Runner. I spent the money so I decided to put them in.

However had she gotten pregnant before I bought them I would have done something similar to an old setup I had in a Frontier. The wife has a '12 Xterra and we've got a '12 Toyota Sienna to haul the family around, so I don't need rear seat area in the X-Runner anymore.

The guys who built this for me did an amazing job. I wanted 4 12"s wired at 1 ohm, but I wanted sound quality at a high spl, not just huge boom. So they threw the specs into their program and kept playing around with the port till it managed what I wanted. And man was it spot on, I could listen to rap and techno and it would rattle mirrors for several cars around. But it could hit the rolling beats of rock and metal with awesome clarity.

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kcidmil

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babyboi2284 made these, he had done up 2 sets, I bought one and he was looking at raffle for the other one but i'm not sure if that happened. Last I had seen he was looking at selling the molds.
 

hottacoX

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I won the raffle :) looking to load mine up soon :top:

Hit up babyboi he may do another run if there is interest!
 

Phil Dammit

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Interesting to see if those memphis shallow mounts last. Ive been running three memphis M class amps since 06 and they have been amazing.
 
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