URD vs TRD Supercharger Info & Stats

[07SWB]

i think its pretty easy to stay ahead of the #'s Jon is making if youre meth injected and tuned, Jon's truck at 343whp was with just the toyota ECU flash and no tuning done. With tuning and meth as your truck has, im sure it will be a better comparison.

Again, the fact that the power comes on a lot faster in a TRD truck compared to a URD truck.

i would like to see the TRD and URD dyno sheets next to eachother, not just numbers.

 

[LSKustumz]

I am at a complete loss to understand why you would go on and on about why URD can't get CARB certification and quote all that stuff. Yes, I know that end user tunabilty cannot be CARB approved. I so stated that when I wote that end user tunability would have to locked down when we start shipping CARB certified kits.

Not everyone else knows or understands this, I assme when writing this that no one knows. That way all the information is clear and concise.

Again, what is keeping us from seeking CARB approval is the carbon trap issue.

So we can conclude that this issue will be resolved? And CARB approval will be granted?


Basically you spent a lot of time typing and stating what I did in just a couple of sentences, but thanks for verifying what we already knew.

We all know you know the system inside and out, and so you should, you sell it!, but my time writing this is well spent so other people understand what was explained. I have seen no other threads with this kind of information in it.

Now as far as comparing stock system to stock system on a completely stock truck, I based my comparison on a dyno chart that was published on one of these forums very shortly after the TRD system was released. I had to dig out my notes and reviewed them. I will have to admit I was wrong when I posted that. I will correct myself. The URD made the same power as the dyno chart posted on the stock TRD system at 2000 RPM, again at 2500 RPM and then started making more power at 3000 RPM.


2000 100/100
2500 130/130
3000 160/170
3500 183/210
4000 205/245
4500 225/280
5000 240/300
5500 250/316

It is hard to find a dyno with an unmodified system and a completely stock truck. The chart you posted and referenced was from a truck with modifications and is not relivent to the point.

TRD did the SAE J1349 dyno test which is the most accurate power test available. And many hours were spent testing with it to ensure accuracy. Perhaps you have similiar engine dyno data?

The intercooler data came straight from TRD rep. I will be doing some testing soon to see if it is accurate or not.

This source at TRD is not reliable? 20 degree temperature sounds like an arbitrary number. It would be pointless for that kind of gradient, I will check the calculations in my books for the measured surface area of the intercooler and the intake charge temperature. Even if it was only 20, wouldn't there be severe ping otherwise? I know with the URD system its almost unnecessary for the intercooler because of the adiabatic efficiency of the compressor. Definitely a plus.

We are working hard on some nice power enhancements for the good folks with the TRD system that I think they are going to enjoy. I spent most of the day yesterday mapping out a TRD system with three different intakes with a MAP-ECU2. Improvements were made, but there is still some work left to do.

As far as modified systems go the highest published peak power dyno go to URD.

At what RPM was the peak number? I haven't seen the graph to properly compare.

I have made a few mods to supercharger on my truck. As soon as I get some more parts in, I will get it on a dyno and see how much of an improvement there is. My goal is to stay 1 HP more then Jonathan.

Can I ask why you are comparing to Jonathon's? There are many other people with TRD s/c's. I believe ntinhri has a pulley and same system as well.

Gadget

Again, I will reiterate, I am by no means nay-saying the URD system. I have seen videos on youtube of Jonathon doing a 3rd gear pull and it really wrenched! The rotrex is a proven charger with a definite spot in the aftermarket. And it sounds like URD is coming out with even more add on's for other applications. URD distributes our headers and exhaust I have no reason to speak ill of them. I just want the XRU and general aftermarket public to get all the facts they need.

 

[Super Werty]

For me hp doesn't mean too much when we are talking about these trucks

either way you go URD or TRD, your going to be faster than stock and about the same to 60, 100 etc

in all seriousness, you cant go very fast on the street anyways so for me an improved 0-60 and 60-100 is all Im looking for...and improved sound of course:rock::biggrin:

 

[My68ur8trd]

ntinhri and my68ur8trd ran the trd-urd dyno runs back to back. Numbers were just about the same to the wheels:dontknow:

headers and no headers:smile:


Justin

 

[My68ur8trd]

" If you compare the unmodified URD kit to the unmodified TRD kit, the URD starts making more power than the TRD at around 2000 RPM and ends up in the 50 HP range more."

Can we see these claims on comparable graphs? Lets not forget that an unmodified TRD kit has no CAI and the URD kit does by its nature.

I think to be fair (and to compare apples to apples) we should compare a STOCK URD kit to a TRD kit with a CAI.

here is a chart to look at

untuned ... obviously and with stock manifolds this is the slap the 75 and run pull. I now have DT headers and a good tune, but havent put it back on the dyno. This is the same dyno that Steve put down 326 on a few weeks ago.

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

here is a chart to look at

untuned ... obviously and with stock manifolds this is the slap the 75 and run pull. I now have DT headers and a good tune, but havent put it back on the dyno. This is the same dyno that Steve put down 326 on a few weeks ago.

So this is 6 PSI (untuned TRD) vs. 9 PSI (untuned URD) both with stock headers to the wheel (not the hub)?

Did you have a Y pipe at all for this run? (just to clarify).

I must say the graph indicates the properties of each kit well.

It shows that the TRD in stock boost trim (6 PSI) form has more HP and more TQ down low and through the midrange then the URD at 9 PSI.

Even up top they are VERY close... But the URD puts out a little more peak power (as to be expected with a Rotrex setup running a 75mm pulley).

You wouldn't happen to have a stock boost URD graph would you dude?

Thanks for posting up your numbers, they look good.

Here is a vague (really not comparable when comparing these two specific trucks but should give us a general idea) break down of RPM and numbers between the kits based on the above two graphs:

0. @ 2,000 RPMs: TRD 118 HP, 298 TQ vs. URD ?
1. @ 2,500 RPMs: TRD 150 HP, 318 TQ vs. URD 130 HP, 260 TQ
2. @ 3,400 RPMs: TRD 210 HP, 325 TQ vs. URD 200 HP, 310 TQ
3. @ 4,000 RPMs: TRD 248 HP, 325 TQ vs. URD 249 HP, 330 TQ
4. @ 4,500 RPMs: TRD 273 HP, 319 TQ vs. URD 270 HP, 318 TQ
5. @ 5,000 RPMs: TRD 295 HP, 310 TQ vs. URD 305 HP, 322 TQ
6. @ 5,500 RPMs: TRD 309 HP, 292 TQ vs. URD 320 HP, 310 TQ
7. @ 5,850 RPMs: TRD 310 HP, 285 TQ vs. URD (bouncing off the rev limiter)

Not to shabby for TRD on stock boost vs URD with about 3 PSI more eh?





Stock to Stock numbers unfortunately in the case of TRD vs URD are BS really unless you want to make all things equal. The above are 2 trucks with similar bolt ons, one with much more boost then the other.

If you want to compare stock numbers put a hoover hose connected to a hamster maze on the URD kit's intake piping.

Who the hell is FI & still bone stock anyway? Almost everyone has an intake and exhaust prior or plans to have them very soon.

Until you drop the stock airbox onto the URD setup don't compare a TRD blower with a stock box vs a URD setup with its CAI.

TRD Supercharger Kit W/ Self install: 3,800 bucks.
TRD CAI W/Self Install: $350.00 (or opt for an intake lower in price)
ECU Flash: $80.00


For everything else there is Mastercard.

 

[My68ur8trd]

So this is 6 PSI (untuned TRD) vs. 9 PSI (untuned URD) both with stock headers to the wheel (not the hub)?

Did you have a Y pipe at all for this run? (just to clarify).

I must say the graph indicates the properties of each kit well.

It shows that the TRD in stock boost trim (6 PSI) form has more HP and more TQ down low and through the midrange then the URD at 9 PSI.

Even up top they are VERY close... But the URD puts out a little more peak power (as to be expected with a Rotrex setup running a 75mm pulley).

You wouldn't happen to have a stock boost URD graph would you dude?

Thanks for posting up your numbers, they look good.

Here is a vague (really not comparable when comparing these two specific trucks but should give us a general idea) break down of RPM and numbers between the kits based on the above two graphs:

0. @ 2,000 RPMs: TRD 118 HP, 298 TQ vs. URD ?
1. @ 2,500 RPMs: TRD 150 HP, 318 TQ vs. URD 130 HP, 260 TQ
2. @ 3,400 RPMs: TRD 210 HP, 325 TQ vs. URD 200 HP, 310 TQ
3. @ 4,000 RPMs: TRD 248 HP, 325 TQ vs. URD 249 HP, 330 TQ
4. @ 4,500 RPMs: TRD 273 HP, 319 TQ vs. URD 270 HP, 318 TQ
5. @ 5,000 RPMs: TRD 295 HP, 310 TQ vs. URD 305 HP, 322 TQ
6. @ 5,500 RPMs: TRD 309 HP, 292 TQ vs. URD 320 HP, 310 TQ
7. @ 5,850 RPMs: TRD 310 HP, 285 TQ vs. URD (bouncing off the rev limiter)

Not to shabby for TRD on stock boost vs URD with about 3 PSI more eh?





Stock to Stock numbers unfortunately in the case of TRD vs URD are BS really unless you want to make all things equal. The above are 2 trucks with similar bolt ons, one with much more boost then the other.
If you want to compare stock numbers put a hoover hose connected to a hamster maze on the URD kit's intake piping.

Who the hell is FI & still bone stock anyway? Almost everyone has an intake and exhaust prior or plans to have them very soon.

Until you drop the stock airbox onto the URD setup don't compare a TRD blower with a stock box vs a URD setup with its CAI.

TRD Supercharger Kit W/ Self install: 3,800 bucks.
TRD CAI W/Self Install: $350.00 (or opt for an intake lower in price)
ECU Flash: $80.00


For everything else there is Mastercard.

326 was Steve on the smaller URD pulley and DT headers at the wheels ( dynojet). This dyno is a little squirrelly though, it can vary 10 hp between pulls

I had the Y in that dyno and Stock manifolds

i need to put mine back on the dyno with the headers and tune

The TRD will make a little more low end until the rotrex builds boost (until around 3k). i hold 5 psi on the shift

but this really is a beat to death argument. We ran ride by side ( when I was on the 80 mm), and steve pulled from the dig, we leveled out in the midrange, and I pulled up top. Just as expected. Anyone with either kit has a quick ass truck . With him at stock boost and me untuned on the 75 I pulled ( but not by much and 20-30 hp or so wont be a drastic difference)

Justin

 

[5H4D0WD347H]

As I said you cant really compare with those graphs if you are looking for defenitive numbers to tell all your friends about; it just gives you a good idea of how each kit compares curve wise.

That graph stacked against yours above is on stock boost, I don't care how much Steve is making (sorry Steve lol) as its irrelevant to the point. In which case if we are going to sling names lets not forget Jon is making damn near 350 HP (with the DT headers & more boost) with out any tune (running pretty lean), meth, or BS.

That Y pipe makes a larger differance then you think bro....

I am not looking to compare peak numbers. I just set them up in a incremental RPM fashion to better enable the power curve of each blower setup to be interpreted.

Both kits are great & make this truck a blast to drive.

The nature of the Roots blower is to own the low end, midrange, and to keep up a steady curve to the top - good for extreme drag racing, tire burning, all around street use, and even towing due to its almost instant torque/boost at lower revs.

The nature of the Centrifugal blowers is known to be/and is more peaky when it comes to the power curve. Good for racing, and more highway based driving.

Those two graphs reflect these different supercharger attributes nicely.

I think its pretty damn amazing how 6 PSI and an intake/catback stack up to your setup's curve though.

Correct me if I am wrong but changing out the rotrex blowers to get more CFM/or running smaller pulleys is trying to accomplish what the roots already has done (get more usable power down lower in the powerbound).

BOOST ON!

 

[LSKustumz]

As I said you cant really compare with those graphs if you are looking for defenitive numbers to tell all your friends about; it just gives you a good idea of how each kit compares curve wise.

That graph stacked against yours above is on stock boost, I don't care how much Steve is making (sorry Steve lol) as its irrelevant to the point. In which case if we are going to sling names lets not forget Jon is making damn near 350 HP (with the DT headers & more boost) with out any tune (running pretty lean), meth, or BS.

That Y pipe makes a larger differance then you think bro....

I am not looking to compare peak numbers. I just set them up in a incremental RPM fashion to better enable the power curve of each blower setup to be interpreted.

Both kits are great & make this truck a blast to drive.

The nature of the Roots blower is to own the low end, midrange, and to keep up a steady curve to the top - good for extreme drag racing, tire burning, all around street use, and even towing due to its almost instant torque/boost at lower revs.

The nature of the Centrifugal blowers is known to be/and is more peaky when it comes to the power curve. Good for racing, and more highway based driving.

Those two graphs reflect these different supercharger attributes nicely.

I think its pretty damn amazing how 6 PSI and an intake/catback stack up to your setup's curve though.

Correct me if I am wrong but changing out the rotrex blowers to get more CFM/or running smaller pulleys is trying to accomplish what the roots already has done (get more usable power down lower in the powerbound).

BOOST ON!

I couldn't have said it better myself!! Both are excellent kits, and will always be compared to each other. Kind of like Ford vs. Chevy, supercharged vs. turbo, and Batman vs. Joker. Knowing the prerequisites of each kit, and what kind of performance they are looking for, one can choose wisely when it is time for boost. I think everything has been well outlined in this thread and is an excellent source of information.

Now time for me to get boosted!!:rock::rock:

 

[K2]

I think everything has been well outlined in this thread and is an excellent source of information.

I agree with you completely. I believe that for the time being, this thread will represent a fantastic resource for people looking for additional information about these kits. I am moving this thread to the Forced Induction forum and closing it at this point in time.

Thanks to all the participants in this thread for keeping it clean - or at least as clean as possible considering the volatility of this subject.