Discussing New Tacoma 2016 Powertrain

[iniazy]

Hi,

This thread is to discusss the initial thoughts on the new Tacoma powertrain in terms of forced induction, which is going to be using the 2GR-FSE.

I am quite disappointed that Toyota chose to ditch the 1GR in favor of the 2GR. The 2GR cannot take a supercharger, from my reading about it, because of the direct fuel injection which is impossible to control and tune. No one has ever made a supercharger Kit for the Lexus IS350, for example, which uses the same engine.

Those new engines keep getting more and more difficult to tune with all those technologies coming in. My take is they are switching for two reasons:
1. Meet emmissions requirements in the US
2. Compete with the new Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon in pure power numbers (300+ HP).

The thing is, they are going to sacrifice low-end torque, which is all what those trucks are about, in favor of top-end power. We truckers don't care about top HP, we care about low-end torque, don't we?

And I've seen significant improvement in fuel consumption with the supercharged 1GR old gen engine, if driven lightly.

Even the new 1GR engine, with all its advancements and increase in power, cannot match the low-end torque of the old-gen 1GR. But at least it can take boost.

What's your say?

 

[justin13703]

Im pretty disappointed in the new engines as well. It seems like everyone else is offering some interesting choices, dodge has the Eco diesel, ford has the Eco boost, chevrolet has the 2.8 turbo diesel for the 2016 Colorado, and Toyota seems to be doing nothing innovative. Either a gas turbo 4 banger or a diesel would have at least gave people a new option. I agree it's probably a pissing match between companies for max hp numbers, but like you said torque is what matters. That 2.8 turbo diesel in the Colorado I think will be a hell of a nice setup. I think it's around 400 lb/ft of torque at 2k rpm.

One thing I'm sure of though, if there's any way to supercharge that new v6, gadget will get it done.

 

[Iggy08]

What are the benefits of diesel engines that has made them so popular recently? I never heard people asking for them before until now, so I'm very curious. I hate the sound and smell of all the F-series diesel Fords, so I couldn't imagine an engine like that in a smaller truck.

 

[justin13703]

What are the benefits of diesel engines that has made them so popular recently? I never heard people asking for them before until now, so I'm very curious. I hate the sound and smell of all the F-series diesel Fords, so I couldn't imagine an engine like that in a smaller truck.

The new Diesel engines are nothing like older Diesel engines. They're quiet, smooth, and don't smell whatsoever. And the power and fuel efficiency out of them is amazing. My girlfriend just bought a 2014 Chevrolet cruze turbo diesel, that thing gets over 50mpg on the highway and makes almost 300 lb/ft of torque. There are plenty people on the cruze forums getting over 1k miles per tank. And it is extremely quiet, and produces no smell whatsoever. My uncle works for Volvo powertrain, and they do emissions tests on the new diesels, and in terms of particulates, the air coming out of the exhaust pipe is cleaner than the air coming into the intake.

Not to get off topic of the Tacoma though. The main drawback to the diesels is cost. They're more expensive to buy because the motors are generally built with more heavy duty components to withstand the compression they make.

 

[iniazy]

I second Justin13703 on Diesel engines.

That's something Toyota is already offering almost everywhere else in the world. Although their 3.0L four banger Diesel is also quite dated, suffering from the same negligence that other Toyota engines are suffering from, so it doesn't match the torque or power levels of competition like Ford's 3.2L five-banger, Nissan's 2.5L turbo diesel, or VW's 2.0L Turbo Diesel.

I don't understand what's with Toyota Diesel motors and the US. They have amazing Diesel engines, but they are never offerred in the US. Such as that mighty 4.5L V8 1VD twin turbo engine, offerred practically everywhere else in the world.

 

[justin13703]

I second Justin13703 on Diesel engines.

That's something Toyota is already offering almost everywhere else in the world. Although their 3.0L four banger Diesel is also quite dated, suffering from the same negligence that other Toyota engines are suffering from, so it doesn't match the torque or power levels of competition like Ford's 3.2L five-banger, Nissan's 2.5L turbo diesel, or VW's 2.0L Turbo Diesel.

I don't understand what's with Toyota Diesel motors and the US. They have amazing Diesel engines, but they are never offerred in the US. Such as that mighty 4.5L V8 1VD twin turbo engine, offerred practically everywhere else in the world.

I think another reason diesels aren't offered as extesively in America, is because most people over here are afraid of them. They hear the word "diesel" and instantly think it's gonna run, sound, and smell like a 1970's peterbilt. Trust me I had to do some major convincing to get her parents to agree about it, even though she bought it herself. Now they both want their next car to be a diesel.

 

[iniazy]

I'd be really interested in seeing what URD or others come up with for the Tacoma's new 2GR engine.

Though like you said, there's nothing really innovative, they're just reusing an engine long-offered in the Lexus range.

iI'm just glad they're retaining the 2TR 2.7L engine; that's also a pretty good and highly modifiable engine.

 

[Gators Taco]

They need option for the Tacoma. I won't buy another one. I'll replace the engine first

 

[KrazyIvan]

What's the old saying? "Horsehower sells cars, torque wins races"?

 

[iniazy]

What's the old saying? "Horsehower sells cars, torque wins races"?

EXACTLY!!!!

 

[Gadget]

People keep forgetting the primary driven force behind all these engine decisions that seem to baffle everyone.

Our Government pulls all these goofy rules out of their butts and jams them on the car companies as far as MPG requirements, CO2, and other emissions requirements. Keep in mind that the people that make up these rules were not able to make it in the private sector so they were drawn to the 4th branch of government.

The end result is you do not get to have what you really want even if you are willing to pay more for it. You get what the companies can figure out what to comply with.

 

[iniazy]

So what are your thoughts of this engine, Gadget?

 

[madtrucker]

I wonder if the new 6-speed manual tranny is way better or more of the same?

 

[Clifford]

I'm seeing plenty of boosted IS350's on their forums, if it's the same motor, shouldn't be an issue with the tacoma.

 

[Torspd]

Time to sleeve and stroke it!

 

[Gadget]

I think the issue is going to be is this Atkinson Cycle logic.

If they are trying to reduce cylinder filling in light load conditions while increasing the manifold pressure to reduce the pumping loss, putting positive pressure into the manifold might just piss things off.

What I think they are doing is greatly delaying the closing of the intake valve even after the piston starts its compression stroke to push some air back out of the cylinder. This reduces the filling of the cylinder like keeping the throttle valve closed.

With this concept, they can then open the throttle more reducing the vacuum in the manifold in light load conditions. The engine pumping a stock negative pressure in the manifold takes energy and that takes fuel, so if they can reduce the amount of negative pressure in the manifold and still keep the power down by reducing cylinder filling, there is less power consumed overall and the MPG goes UP.

Anyway, that is my take on this so far.

At the end of the day all that matters is how well the truck drives with the new engine and how much more MPG it gets. I cannot wait to drive one to see.

Wondering, with the proper engine management and a positive displacement supercharger can we turn that Atkinson Cycle engine into a Miller Cycle engine and get some nice power out of it??? Lets see....

G

 

[KrazyIvan]

Oh yeah, and is it just me or do the grill and front head light look derivative to the Ford Fusion/Mustang styling?

 

[Ostrichsak]

This configuration may not be ideal for supercharging but it is ideal for turbocharging. Our Optima is a GDi turbo 2.0L 4cyl and makes 274hp and gets 30mpg mixed driving like an asshole. On a trip out of state which consisted of about 500 miles to the city and three days driving around the city and then 500 mikes back we got an average of 36.5mpg.... all on regular unleaded. For me, I prefer turbo charging anyway so if this engine can be made to get 5mpg more (the current #'s being thrown around) while making the same basic power at the same basic points in the RPM range that's exciting news. That's a 25% bump in mpg which is no small accomplishment. Tuning for power is easier in the aftermarket than tuning for MPG so give me a V6 that makes mid 20 mpg range with the same hp/torque numbers and I'll be excited.

I don't think the diesel thing is a significant advantage and the whole 'clean diesel' movement has helped to cement that. Have you seen diesel price at the pump compared to regular unleaded lately? Yikes! In addition, having owned several diesels myself, I can attest to how much more noisy they are and require more maintenance with the seasons and such that you don't have to deal with with a gasoline powered vehicle. If it was offered, I personally wouldn't want one unless I had the need for the massive amount of low-end torque they're capable of but even then it would be in a full-size truck and not a midsize truck. It seems as though the vocal few make it seem like everybody wants a diesel in these trucks and I just don't think that's the case or we would have seen it by now. GM threw one in their midsize truck and discontinued it a couple of years later. It's just not the right market or vehicle for it IMO and the increased regulations don't help that any either.

Let us also not forget that this is the first 'mostly' new Tacoma in over a decade and it was the recent introduction of competition that sparked it. As the market shares swing we may see even better things being brought to market in terms of options, features and power trains. We may see a new kick ass 4cyl turbo that is capable of 30mpg mixed while making the same amount of power or possibly even MORE than the current 6cyl. The technology is there it's just a question of how much of it manufacturers will have to put into a truck to sell them. Right now, Toyota has the market and hasn't been forced to do anything really to have people lined up to buy every truck they can produce. Now that there's some competition things are going to get very interesting which helps us as the consumer.

I still think we don't have enough facts to discuss this in-depth in either direction as some seem to want to. I've watched topics exactly like this go to hell in a heartbeat on other forums. Bunch of damn complainers complaining and trolling threads when we don't even know any specs yet.

 

[justin13703]

Diesel around here is 80 cents a gallon more than 87. For the people who want to get up to 20mpg more and double the torque of a smiliar size gas motor, diesels are a good option. Whether it's a full size truck or midsize truck doesn't matter. TORQUE is what you want in a truck. And anyone who thinks the new diesels are still noisy and require all this maintenance and have to be plugged in to start in the cold, clearly haven't driven one of the new ones.

And to be clear, no one said they should have offered only a diesel. We said the option of one would be nice, or a turbo 4 gas or even a turbo 6 but that would be a bit overkill I think. And no one on here is just complaining or "trolling" the thread was started to discuss everyone's opinions of the new drivetrains.

 

[iniazy]

According to Wikipedia, it is the exact same engine in the IS350, which has been around since 2006 (if my memory serves). So it is no new engine.

Intresting info gadget.