Originally Posted by
Gadget
There are a few things that Doug Thorley rep posted that need to be corrected.
The TRD supercharger uses the Eaton M-90 rotor pack. It is the old 3 lob design. I corrected him in the past on this, but he keeps saying it is the newer 4 lobe TVS design and it is not.
I could be wrong, but at SEMA this what Magnuson specified, and what Eation had at their booth as well.
The URD system does not require tuning. We do give the end user the ability to tune if he wishes. The tuning software is shipped with the kit.
He is completely wrong about not being able to tune open loop. Open loop is what is tuned. The 4.0 goes into open loop very early compared to the older V6 and pretty much any time the engine is in boost the ECU is in open loop. The URD Performance Calibration Unit that is shipped with the kit gives you full control over anything that you will ever need to tune with this system.
The URD system is not CARB approved. The only thing keeping it from being is we are waiting on a ruling from CARB on the carbon trap issue. Once they make their ruling on what aftermarket solutions will be accepted to replace the stock carbon trap we will be able to obtain a CARB certification. If we start shipping CARB certified kits the end user access to the ECU tuning will be locked down.
How many years has your system been for sale without CARB approval? Because of your end user tunability it will not be able to pass CARB. If you allow adjustments to pulse width or anything to do with the addition of fuel to the system it has to be above a specified RPM. Dobeck's controller is getting a EO right now for this, because the adjustment range is so small and high up in the RPM range that it will not effect emissions at that RPM level. I believe this is notified in [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Vehicle Code Section 27156 (VC 27156), I could be wrong.
You can look up a manufacture on ARB sites for EO numbers withheld by each company, here is the address
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermk...es/amquery.php
Here is a link to the ARB site for the 27156 regarding EO application.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/aftermkt.htm#ca
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If you compare the unmodified URD kit to the unmodified TRD kit, the URD starts making more power than the TRD at around 2000 RPM and ends up in the 50 HP range more.
I beg to differ. Here is the dyno graph of the TRD. Can you post the URD graph?
Installing the URD kit does not automatically void your trucks warranty. Just like installing a set of Doug Thorley headers will not.
This is the Moss Motor Act that you are thinking of. Headers are a performance market that has been around for years, and is AFTER the engine, does not affect the fuel curve of the stock ECU, have signal conditioners or calibrators attached to it. Your unit requires tying into the ECU does it not? And conditioning signals that are feeding into the ECU? Our headers do not. They just bolt on and flow. Although the PNP harnesses are SWEEET!! I think you are comparing apples and oranges there.
The URD intercooler reduces charge air temp by 70 degrees. The TRD one reduces charge air temp roughly 20 degrees according to TRD.
They claimed with the 3.4L a temperature drop of 32 degrees with the 7th injector setup, just squirting fuel dropped the temp, simple laws of thermodynamics. And you are saying their water-to-air intercooler is only doing 20 degree temperature drop? With the compression ratio of 10.4 they cannot afford to only have a 20 degree drop. There is a safety margin that must be accomplished in order for these to be warranted.
Both systems are very nice. Which ever one you chose you will not be disapointed.
Absolutely!! I am by no means slandering the URD kit, it is an excellent kit, with great adiabatic efficiency and top end power and design. It just depends where you want power, and maintaining smog legality and warranty. As with any product out on the market, all the facts should be laid out so the consumer can decide.
Gadget
I am at a complete loss to understand why you would go on and on about why URD can't get CARB certification and quote all that stuff. Yes, I know that end user tunabilty cannot be CARB approved. I so stated that when I wote that end user tunability would have to locked down when we start shipping CARB certified kits.
Again, what is keeping us from seeking CARB approval is the carbon trap issue.
Basically you spent a lot of time typing and stating what I did in just a couple of sentences, but thanks for verifying what we already knew.
Now as far as comparing stock system to stock system on a completely stock truck, I based my comparison on a dyno chart that was published on one of these forums very shortly after the TRD system was released. I had to dig out my notes and reviewed them. I will have to admit I was wrong when I posted that. I will correct myself. The URD made the same power as the dyno chart posted on the stock TRD system at 2000 RPM, again at 2500 RPM and then started making more power at 3000 RPM.
2000 100/100
2500 130/130
3000 160/170
3500 183/210
4000 205/245
4500 225/280
5000 240/300
5500 250/316
It is hard to find a dyno with an unmodified system and a completely stock truck. The chart you posted and referenced was from a truck with modifications and is not relivent to the point.
The intercooler data came straight from TRD rep. I will be doing some testing soon to see if it is accurate or not.
We are working hard on some nice power enhancements for the good folks with the TRD system that I think they are going to enjoy. I spent most of the day yesterday mapping out a TRD system with three different intakes with a MAP-ECU2. Improvements were made, but there is still some work left to do.
As far as modified systems go the highest published peak power dyno go to URD.
I have made a few mods to supercharger on my truck. As soon as I get some more parts in, I will get it on a dyno and see how much of an improvement there is. My goal is to stay 1 HP more then Jonathan.
Gadget
, but I LOVE the way the URD kit sounds. I like the whine of the TRD, but nothin beats the wssssssshhhhhhhhhhh noise...IMO. I love the way a turbo sounds, and the URD is as close as I can get right now.
